» Transcript, Part One
-Threatening a U.S. Attorney
» Transcript, Part Two
- Special Agents
» Transcript, Part Three -
How Could Kavanaugh Stoop So Low?
» Transcript, Part Four -
Be A Good Soldier
Transcript Part One - Threatening a U.S. Attorney
Since July 20, 1993, when the body of deputy White House counsel
Vincent Foster was found at Fort Marcy Park, the American
government, and more importantly, the American press, have concealed
the true facts of the death from the American people.
Now, ten years later, we hear from the leading government
investigator that Foster did not die the way officials have said.
We now learn firsthand from the person in charge of Independent
Counsel Kenneth Starr's Foster death investigation that Starr's
investigation was a sham and that its conclusion was determined even
before the investigation even began. Investigators altered the
crime scene, and a few people controlled the outcome of the
investigation. The press controlled how it would be reported.
You are about to hear the voice of Miquel Rodriguez, a United
States Attorney working in Sacramento California.
Mr. Rodriguez resigned from Kenneth Starr's office of Independent
Counsel in the spring of 1995, when Kenneth Starr's staff frustrated
his investigation. Mr. Rodriguez resigned because he refused to join
the others in covering up Foster's murder. Mr. Rodriguez revealed
the truth to over a hundred people journalists, congressmen,
senators, and others, in his attempts to get the facts of the case
to the public. What you will hear are actual excerpts from some of
these conversations. Only the voice of Mr. Rodriguez is heard, to
protect confidential sources.
In this first segment, you will hear that Vincent Foster did not
die the way Kenneth Starr's predecessor, Robert Fiske, had said.
The evidence does not support the conclusion of suicide.
All I know is that things did not happen the way that Fiske said
that they happened. And the reports don't support what Fiske said.
There's, there's really nothing is consistent with him, ah, you
know, committing that kind of a violent or that kind of violent
act at all. So, it did not happen the way that Fiske said it
One fact about Foster's death was the first rescue workers to
arrive at the body saw very little blood. People who arrived later
saw much more blood. Robert Fiske and Kenneth Starr falsely claimed
that a quantity of blood was observed where the body was first
discovered. Another false story was the story by Fiske and Starr
was that an early observer, a rescue worker, had moved Foster's head
to check for a pulse.
By the way, you know why there was blood by the way. What
happened is that by the time they got there when the body was in the
position that it was in, there was no virtually no blood anywhere.
Um, then there's, there are some conflicting reports about there
being blood later on. Later the EMT sees blood, then Haut sees
blood. Well the reason is very clear. They lifted the body and
pulled it to the top of the ridge, top of the berm, and once they
did that blood started flowing fast. And then when they took the
body and put it into the body bag, which was right in other words
they it was on a slope they pull it up onto the slope. When the
body is horizontal or even at the top of the berm it's not quite
horizontal it's a little bit of a back-slope and all of a sudden
the blood starts gushing out, there's a lot of blood then under the
Miquel Rodriguez explains that the body was moved in the presence
of Park Police Officer John Rolla, with the knowledge of the medical
examiner Dr. Donald Haut, and others. Rescue worker Corey Ashford
arrived at Foster's body after it had already been moved Crime scene
photos of the body as it had originally been observed apparently
Exactly, but Corey's also the one who that's when the body's in
the upright not in the upright but in the ah, in a ah, supine
position, um, on the top of the berm, already, in other words,
different than, some of the Ashford and the persons who actually
lifted the body into the body bag, don't see the body in its
original position. They see it in a horizontal position, um, having
been moved from a vertical position. And so when it's in the
horizontal position there is blood coagulating under the body before
it goes into the body bag. That explains the difference in there
being a lot of blood. And that's what Haut sees also. Haut asks
that the body be rolled, um, when it's in the horizontal position,
so when Haut sees the body, the body then a horizontal state and
yes there's going to be blood.
You see so Haut actually sees the body in two positions and
people are conveniently using different phrases of Haut to justify
whatever result they want. Sure Haut says on one hand there is no
blood, then, he says, on the other hand, there is blood. The fact
is, a number of people have said there was a small amount where the
body was originally found.
Mike Wallace of 60 minutes, and Jim Wooten of ABC News along with
other journalists hoodwinked the public by broadcasting that there
was plenty of blood where Foster's body was found. There was more
tampering with the crime scene when the FBI re-landscaped the park
where Foster's body was found, destroying evidence of park trails
And do you really know what the egress and, and access is, ah, to
the Park. You have to go back to 1993. You have to go back to prior
to the body being found and find out what access there was, who knew
about that access, um, and how is it changed. That is the whole
point, you're, again you guys really have to understand they've
re-landscaped it prior to this you know, they, they've changed
gates, they've changed paths, they've changed trees, they've filled
gullies, they've redefined the slope. You know the whole thing was
changed when I was there. The whole area has been re-landscaped.
Officially, Foster was found with a black colt revolver in his
hand. But that's not what the first witnesses saw. Richard Arthur, a
paramedic at the scene saw an automatic pistol. The investigators
ignored this gun. The gun officially found in Foster's hand was not
the same gun in his hand when the rescue workers arrived.
Even the Park Police, even the Park Police and the person who
first saw the body, ah, saw different things. Was there a point in
time where the particular gun that you described arrived and
something before that was either not observed or not completely
Both paramedics at the scene saw a bullet wound in Vince Foster's
neck. Miquel Rodriguez reviewed photographs of the body at the scene
and also saw the trauma to Foster's neck.
Fiske's Report falsely stated that, "the photographs taken at the
scene conclusively show that there were no such wounds." Starr's
report states that the paramedic who was saw the bullet wound in the
neck ''may have been mistaken."
Both EMT's you remember when you have a, a emergency and you
call the fire department they will send their normal crew and each
crew may have an EMT with them, ah, with a specially trained fire
department person. Both EMT's that responded to the Park both
observed trauma to the neck. While Arthur remained clear on it
despite the FBI's attempt to shake him, the other one was confused
by the FBI and kept saying what he saw but they kept writing it a
I saw pictures that clearly indicate to me that there is trauma
on the neck. I believe it's a puncture wound on the neck.
Kenneth Starr's report on Foster's death states, "according to
Secret Service records, the Secret Service was notified of Mr.
Foster's death at about 8:30 p.m. eastern time on July
20th." Paramedics and rescue workers were called at 6:00 pm, and,
according to Miquel Rodriguez, the White House knew well before the
first 911 call was placed.
There's indications that the White House and others knew prior to
the time it was officially said to be told. There was notification
made well before the time that the EMTs were called.
Reporters and editors have deceived people by publicizing the
foolish idea that that too many people would have to be involved for
a cover-up to remain secret.
There's not that many people who know these things really. You
don't need a lot of people to know what's going on. In fact, you
don't need many at all. Everyone makes a very big mistake when they
believe that a lot of people are necessary to orchestrate some kind
of some result here. Very few people need to know anything
about anything, really. All, all people need to know is what their
job is, not why be a good soldier, carry out the orders.
And there are a lot of people from starting at the very night
that the body was investigated, all the way down the line, there
were, there were, people told to do certain things and they didn't
and their explanation now is, that they were following orders, being
told what to do.
Nobody, ah, and this goes for, the FBI agents they all, they
don't necessarily know the big picture they don't know what other
people are writing in their reports. When you write a report all
you have to do is make sure that it's consistent with the most
innocuous thing is to make sure it is consistent with the result
that you ultimately want to get, which is not embarrass your other
colleagues who have made their conclusions already.
It's a motivation which is that simple and, and, you know all of
a sudden your notes don't exactly reflect what other people have
said. It's very simple. It's a very, a very, ah, clean formula to
achieve the result. You don't have to know the big picture. All
you need to do is just have a couple of people involved.
In other words, if Braun and, you know, two or three others are
out there assisting and making this all go smoothly, right, then
they're the ones who ultimately collecting all the notes of the
other officers, right, then they, all they do is submit their own
notes and their final report. You see, very few people, okay,
they've sent people out there and you, you, ah, talk to those
people, interview 'em and I'll be over in a little while. You know,
you come over, you get their notes and you write your report. Your
report's wrong, you hope nobody's gonna catch you on it but if they
do so what. It gets obscured and obscured and obscured because you,
you control the central figures in the investigation. You don't need
all these Park Police and all these FBI agents to know the overall
The FBI conducted the first investigation along with the Park
Police. The FBI reinvestigated Foster's death under Independent
Counsel Fiske, then, Kenneth Starr used the very same FBI agents in
his investigation for his investigation. The American press misled
the American public by reporting that there have been several
independent investigations, when, in fact, all of the investigations
were done by the FBI.
Starr could only be as good as the agents I mean how
independent can Starr really be when he was being supplied by the
very same agency, ah, you know with the investigative team, the same
agency, that did the investigation under question the same
Another member of Starr's investigation was Mark Touhey, a former
President of the District of Columbia's Bar. Mark Touhey squelched
Rodriguez' efforts to issue subpoenas and call witnesses.
The games are being played with people, you know, like, like
Tuohey and, and the young aspiring people, you know, who I used to
work with back in that office who will, will say and do what they
have to, to move up the ladder.
It's not just Tuohey, there's a lot of people that are, are very
interested in controlling the result here. I wrote that to Starr
back in January of, of this year and in December of this year it was
squelched by, by Tuohey because he could yell louder than I could
he was a team player and, you know, I know, my office was
searched by him, you know, um, I know what he is capable of
doing. That includes throwing a tantrum and throwing chairs.
I was unable to call witnesses and issue subpoenas and, under
control of the Democrat Mark Tuohey, and compromised. You know
it's in many Republican's interest to not rock the boat, because
what we're talking about is ultimate power.
Clearly, the American Press participated in the cover-up of
Foster's murder. Miquel Rodriguez reached out and told "over 100"
reporters much more than you're hearing today. The American Press
only parroted the official lie that they were spoon-fed by Kenneth
Starr's Office of Independent Counsel.
I have talked to a number of people that you know, from Time
Magazine, Newsweek, Nightline, the
New York Times, Boston Globe, the Atlanta whatever, um,
you know there have been well over a hundred, and this this matter
is so sealed tight um, and, the reporters are all genuinely
interested but the ah, the ah, um, reporters are genuinely
interested but the ah when they start to get excited and they've
got a story and they're ready to go, the editors and they I've
gotten calls back, I've gotten calls back from all kinds of
magazines worldwide, what the hell's wrong, why can't, you know, you
were telling me that you, you didn't think this would go anywhere
and sure enough I wrote the stories.
They went to all the trouble of writing, and then it got killed.
Again, I, I, you know, I spent almost eleven hours with, with
Labaton, or six hours with Labaton, and ah, you know, I know the guy
knows, um, that there's a lot more, um, ah I know, I know the
New York Times has it knows, and just won't ah, ah, I know
that they won't do anything about it and I do know that, that many
people have called me back. Reporters that I've spent a lot of time
with called me back and said the editors won't allow it to go to
press. The accepted media here has always had, ah, a certain take on
all of this. And there's been story lines from the get-go.
There never really was an investigation into Vincent Foster's
death. There was only the appearance of an investigation. Park
Police investigator Cheryl Braun, admitted in testimony that the
determination that the death was a suicide was made prior to her
going up and looking at the body. The Fiske and Starr
investigations were result-oriented. Miquel Rodriguez resigned
because he would not be part of an investigation with a forgone
It's ah, the result is being dictated by a lot higher, um,
authority than I think people really understand or appreciate and
certainly more than I ever appreciated. What with this whole notion
ah, you know, of, of doing an honest investigation, um, you know,
you know, it's, it's laughable.
I knew what the result was going to be, because I was told what
the result was going to be from the get-go. And then there's all so
much fluff, and a look-good job, it's just, this is all, all so much
nonsense and I knew the result before the investigation began.
That's why I left. I don't do investigations like that do
investigations to justify results. There's a again, I don't think
they can go back to the fact that, and it's just a fact for me
because it was told to me, the result here has already been
determined. It was determined long ago. Fiske himself indicated that
he had determined the result before he had ever released a report.
And that's the way all the investigations have resulted its end
oriented. Again, you know, I left for a very good reason. The
results, you know, were dictated and I don't do that kind of work.
Who has the power to threaten the United States Attorney without
consequence? Miquel Rodriguez was threatened. He was threatened
professionally, physically, and personally.
The Independent Counsel themselves, and the FBI, beat me back,
and in fact threatened me. They told me to quote, this is a quote,
"back off." It was either "back off or back
down." They used both of them.
You know it's I have been communicated with again and told to
you know, to be careful where I tread.
I can tell you this, that ah, ah, that it has not only to do with
my career and reputation, um, they've also had to do with my
personal health and my family.
The Jason Blair's are only a distraction from what is wrong with
the American press. The ongoing problem is the owners and editors
that continue to protect the people who threatened Miquel
Rodriguez. As long as the criminal cover-up of Vince Foster's murder
continues, the journalism profession deserves the scorn of the
END part one back to the top
Part Two - Special Agents
My name is Miquel Rodriguez, 650 Capitol Mall, Office of U.S.
Attorney, Sacramento, 95814
Miquel Rodriguez, the lead investigator of Foster's death for
independent counsel Kenneth Starr, spoke to over 100 journalists.
One journalist, Steve Labaton, of the New York Times called Miquel
Rodriguez every other day. America's most influential newspaper
never reported the story. Why did Steve Labaton and the New York
Times fail the public trust?
Labaton still calls me every other day. I know Labaton is a
complete believer now. There is no doubt in my mind he's a complete
believer. I think that he's a believer and he knows, I spent about
five hours with him.
To make it appear that Foster was killed with a gun he owned,
Kenneth Starr's staff reported the family had brought guns to
Yet there was no evidence the family owned two guns.
There was no evidence of there being two guns either, that there
was evidence of two guns being brought up, no evidence at all.
There is no evidence that that gun was ever found to have ever
been part of the family. It contradicts an earlier statement by
Lisa [Foster] that it wasn't the gun.
During his effort to investigate Foster's murder, Rodriguez
discovered photographs were stolen, destroyed or withheld to conceal
the truth. In the first audio Rodriguez explained that Foster's
body had been moved. The missing photographs would prove the
perpetrators recreated the crime scene.
To be honest with you I think that ah, I think that the
photographs that were taken for several people don't exist any
longer or they have never been turned over to reviewing officials.
At least seven were missing and that was established at one point.
At least five that were taken by one particular person are gone, and
don't exist in addition to the thirteen. In other words, I had a
person look at 13 photographs and that person told me, "mine are
not here." That person's photographs are missing, at least that
Brett Kavanaugh, Starr's associate, gave a good deal of credit to
the pathology panel of experts that worked for Starr's predecessor
Robert Fiske. We now learn that these so-called "experts" did not
examine the original crime scene photographs. Dr. Donald Ray, Dr.
Charles Hirsch, Dr. Charles Stahl, and Dr. James L. Luke viewed only
third and fourth generation copies of photographs.
Even the photographs that I had developed that I really don't
want to discuss right now. Even that photograph we weren't supposed
to see in my opinion. You know because I had to go through great
lengths to get it and I had to do it myself. That was a Polaroid, a
picture of a picture of a picture. There were three layers. It was
a third generation.
The first, the whole first team of forensic scientists looked at
the third generation photographs, absolutely ridiculous.
I thought that was what was particularly interesting also was
that the finding that we discovered that there were pictures of
pictures of pictures, third generation photographs, that were used
in the Fiske report.
Starr's office used the same photos as his predecessor Fiske.
Brett Kavanaugh wrote that the conclusion of suicide was based on
photographs, "gathered during the prior investigation."
Starr's associate independent counsel Brett Kavanaugh wrote, "The
35-millimeter photographs were underexposed: thus, the POLAROIDS
were of greater investigative utility." Kavanaugh knew the
35-millimeter photos were not underexposed, and he had access to all
first generation photos.
I found the first generation of Polaroid's. I also had the first
generation negative of a 35 millimeters, very interesting stuff.
Miquel Rodriguez searched and found the original photographs.
From those pictures he discovered that Foster had been moved to
recreate the crime scene. According to Rodriguez, Park Police
Officer John Rolla's report was not consistent with his own
statements. Rodriguez said Officer John Rolla was "incredible".
I found Rolla's, the notes that he made at the scene, completely
incredible and inconsistent with prior statements both made by him
and accounts of others. I think he is completely incredible.
During the grand jury process, it is obvious Rodriguez learned
important facts about people present at the crime scene. He does not
reveal what was said during the proceedings. A slip of the tongue
reveals the word "special" as in Special Agents, being present at
the crime scene. The only officials at the crime scene, according
to the media were; U.S. Park Police, Fairfax County rescue, and the
God! I'm just brimming over, I'm bubbling over. And I'm angry
that I cannot respond. I am angry myself. Because there is much to
be said. Let me suggest to you, investigate, be investigative
reporters. Investigate these people too. What background did they
have? Wouldn't it be surprising if, these people were special
liaisons in a prior life to, in some capacity. And were there any
other supervisor people out there? And, and what were the
backgrounds of some of those police that were out there? There's a
whole host of fertile ground out there. And have you really
identified all the main players out there at the park police?
Patrick Knowlton, producer of this audio, testified before the
Whitewater grand jury. Knowlton has first hand knowledge of grand
jury witness intimidation and abuse at the hands of people like Ken
Starr's associates Brett Kavanaugh and John Bates.
Rodriguez tells us that Starr used many of the same investigators
that were responsible for the Fiske investigation -- the same FBI
Associate counsel Mark Stein and Deputy Independent [Counsel]
Roderick Lankler, whose names appear on the cover of Fiske's Report,
were also retained by Starr. Rodriguez relates how Stein and
Lankler reacted when he suggested that different FBI agents be used
to reinvestigate Foster's death.
Well, I couldn't believe it, and these people Mark Stein and what
was that guy's name, ah from New York, it starts with an "L",
Lankler. My God, I couldn't, they were, they had the nerve to look
at me straight in the eye, and ah, when I said, "Look, I think it
might be a good idea to use different FBI agents." They went
through the roof! They went absolutely nuts! They had everything
the way they wanted it. It was a complete sham job. You know,
again, I just think it is a whitewash.
As Miquel Rodriguez stated, "these people had everything the way
they wanted it." Kenneth Starr and his associates knew that they
could count on the American press to conceal the truth.
Hello, I am Patrick Knowlton.
These audios confirm what my lawyer John Clarke, and the leading
expert on the case, Hugh Turley, and I, have been telling Congress,
the media and others for years.
Attorney Clarke, Mr. Turley and I spent years calling, mailing
and personally delivering this information to the Congress, to the
press and to others.
Every member of the 104th and 105th
Congress was provided documented proof of the criminal cover-up.
Every major newspaper and media outlet including the Network News,
Dateline, Nightline, 20-20, Larry King Live, The Wall Street
Journal, The Washington Post, New York Times,
Washington Times, Los Angeles Times, Chicago Tribune,
Newsweek, Time, U.S. News and World Report, CNN
and countless others ignored us.
Honest journalism and honest government can be achieved. But
not by contacting members of Congress and the press as we have
These audios when distributed will demonstrate to our family,
friends, and neighbors that our current American press cannot be
trusted, and with this we will take the first step toward achieving
a better world.
As Miquel Rodriguez will tell you, the only battle left is the
battle for public opinion.
END part two back to the top
Part Three - How Could Kavanaugh
Stoop So Low?
This is the third in a series of audio presentations produced by
Whitewater grand jury witness Patrick Knowlton and his lawyer John
H. Clarke. You will hear Mr. Knowlton on this audio.
You will also hear the voice of Assistant United States Attorney
Miquel Rodriguez, and the voice of Associate White House Counsel
Brett Kavanaugh. Both Kavanaugh and Rodriguez served as Associate
Independent Counsel under Kenneth Starr. Starr chose Kavanaugh to
In 1994 and 1995, Miquel Rodriquez was the lead prosecutor
investigating Mr. Foster's death. Rodriquez thoroughly reviewed
all of the federal records in the Foster case. Despite Ken Starr's
and the FBI's attempts to hide the first generation crime scene
photographs from him, Rodriguez discovered the original photographs.
Miquel Rodriguez is the leading government authority on
the evidence. He witnessed criminal activity in the Office of
Miquel Rodriguez, from the U.S. Attorney's Office. It is one
thing to have read five, ten to twenty, you know, ten thousand pages
worth of documents and to know what I know. I mean facts are a
strange thing because they can't be denied.
And, you know, and like, for example the 35-millimeters, the hand
is in a different position than the Polaroids and like if you look
at some of the weeds, little weeds, fibers coming up through his
hand they are different on photographs, different ah, different
photographs indicate different positions based on the vegetation.
From the photographic evidence, Rodriguez knew the perpetrators
staged the crime scene.
The press publicized the search of Fort Marcy Park for the fatal
bullet to give the public the impression Starr was doing a thorough
investigation. The bullet was never found because it remained in
Foster's head. Rodriguez discovered that the FBI, with the
assistance of Doctor James Beyer, had destroyed the evidence that
showed the bullet remained in Foster's brain. People asked
Rodriguez if exhuming Foster's body for an X-ray could reveal the
They certainly won't find a brain there. We sure don't have any
way to show what the track of the bullet was, if in fact a bullet
came from inside the mouth.
The public would expect an investigation to examine telephone
records of calls made to and from Vincent Foster around the time of
his death. Kavanaugh wrote in the Starr Report that phone records
indicated a call was placed from the White House residence at
on the night of Foster's death. In the same paragraph Kavanaugh
also wrote, "Complete records for such calls are not available."
Rodriguez reveals that the Office of Independent Counsel never
subpoenaed any White House telephone records of calls from anyone
including Vincent Foster..
Telephone records are not a window into anything. Because the
telephone records are only going to be as good as what the FBI asks
for. Whatever else I am saying is this, okay, there is no way,
based on what I knew was subpoenaed, to confirm or deny that
somebody made any particular telephone calls at any particular time
and that includes Vince Foster.
After his departure, Miquel Rodriguez encouraged journalists to
write articles to educate the public and the grand jurors about
their powers. He realized that the common person was the last
bastion of hope.
Let me interject one thought, the, really the only fertile ground
here for getting a, getting a, ah, full accounting done and I mean
even, even beyond what Congress is capable of doing is to target the
grand jury. Empowering the grand jury, letting them know what they
can demand, what they should be wary of, um, what their independent
subpoena powers are, um, whether they have the authority to ask
questions on their own in the grand jury. The real check and
balance here is um, is the grand jury, the common person, selected
They read the Post. When I used to go into the grand jury, I'd
see them reading the Post and the Times on these articles. They
follow all of it very carefully. You target them and they are going
to feel empowered. That is going to piss Starr and people like
Tuohey off more than anything else.
The press did the opposite. Their articles undermined the grand
jury. Who were the unnamed government sources that fed the
Washington Post and Washington Times information that undermined the
grand jury. Rodriguez called a Wall Street Journal article
by Ellen Joan Pollock, on March 23, 1995, "nonsense", "pernicious"
That Pollock article was nonsense. There is so much manipulation
going on in terms of what these people are trying to make people
believe. It's pernicious, it is harmful.
This is all spin being put out by certain people to manipulate,
not only the readership but it, you people have no idea how you
affect, ah, ah, an investigation. You know, if I walk into the
grand jury on the same day that some Post article said that Starr
has reached an opposite conclusion than what I am doing, where is
that person getting that information? Why are they timing, why are
they timing it so perfectly to, to undermine what I am doing and,
the attitudes. It is very, very disturbing, from that aspect on how
powerful this all is.
Miquel Rodriguez discovered that the investigators were treating
witnesses inappropriately. Deputy Independent Counsels John Bates
and Mark Tuohey and Associate Independent Counsel Brett Kavanaugh
used the FBI to harass and intimidate witnesses who had no reason to
lie. Witnesses who told investigators Foster's gray car was not at
Fort Marcy Park were re-interviewed, harassed, and intimidated.
The goal of Starr's office was to silence witnesses whose accounts
contradicted its desired result.
One thing that I met fierce opposition to, in the trenches,
inside the Independent Counsel was this, I was really upset that,
the, um, the witnesses who had no incentive to lie, this is the way
I phrased it, why is the FBI harassing and re-interviewing witnesses
who have no incentive to lie and yet we are treating with rubber
gloves persons who do have an incentive to lie, and or at least not
be candid. And who in fact, have made misstatements involving
What does this guy Knowlton have to gain in saying something that
he said from the outset and continues to say today? And he should
take an incredulous, and others should take an incredulous attitude,
like a, why are you questioning me? And even in the grand jury,
people can respond this way, people don't know it, why are you
pushing my? why are you following me? Why are you, and you know, if
Knowlton wants to make a statement, he is certainly welcome, you
know, there is no problem in asking why am I being followed? Why am
I, why was I being harassed in the grand jury? Knowlton should find
comfort in the fact that he is not alone. He needs to know that.
The guy is a damn hero.
What they are trying to do is discredit him by making him out to
be, um you know a homosexual cruising at a park. The reality is we
had this fight a year ago, and I was literally irate with Tuohey and
the FBI agents who were snickering and laughing with Brett about
this. And I was just livid! And I said I don't care if they were
there @#&*ing their favorite tree I said! The fact of the matter is
if they know what they saw that does not discount them, as for
having the ability to recall what they saw with there own eyes! And
I don't care again, if they were #@*%ing their favorite tree. And
the FBI finds it particularly funny.
There is a pattern in the treatment of all of the witnesses. It
is absolutely crystal clear and you can only see it when you have
gone through the ten thousand, fifteen thousand documents. And when
you do so, you will see that, that there is a pattern of basically
harassing and misstating people who are sort of the innocent
bystanders, including the EMTs [Emergency Medical Technicians] and
the people who are law enforcement and FBI and White House are being
interviewed once and accepted as being true. The EMTs are
outstanding people, all outstanding people. They really are.
No, actually it was upon review of all of the documents in this
case, my observation and statements that I indicated to, to Tuohey
and Starr was that witnesses who had no incentive to lie were being
unduly, questioned, (pause) inappropriately. Persons with no
incentive to lie were being inappropriately treated. I think I
could stand by that. You know, that was something that I believed,
I believed it from the outset. You know, people like the Park
Police were never asked tough questions. I tried to ask them tough
questions and they beat the hell out of me. It was just bass
The public has no way to know how many witnesses may have been
harassed and intimidated. Journalists Michael Isikoff, Steve
Labaton, Micah Morrison, Matt Drudge and others spoke to Patrick
Knowlton about his being harassed, but no stories appeared
By not reporting witness's stories, journalists aid the
perpetrators in silencing witnesses. Crime scene witnesses include
civilians Jean Slade, Judith Doody, Mark Fiest, Patrick Knowlton,
park service workers Chuck Stough, Francis Swann, as well as rescue
workers, Todd Hall, Richard Arthur, George Gonzalez, Ralph Pisani,
Jennifer Wacha, Cory Ashford, William Bianchi, Victoria Jacobs,
Roger Harrison, Andrew Makuch, the coroner's wife and two unnamed
tow truck drivers. The public does not know of these people or
One person's story that did receive media attention was the story
of the confidential witness known as, "CW". His name is Dale Kyle,
of Midland, Virginia, and his statements and his deposition are not
consistent with the facts.
Patrick Knowlton called the authorities to report what he had
witnessed. In the months leading up to his Whitewater grand jury
appearance, the FBI interviewed Knowlton three times, vandalized his
car, and caused him to be intimidated in his home and on the streets
of Washington, D.C.
Mr. Knowlton had seen a suspicious man at Fort Marcy Park who may
have been involved in the murder of Vincent Foster. After
testifying for 2 ½ hours before the grand jury, what interested
prosecutor Brett Kavanaugh about this unknown man at the park about
90 minutes before the discovery of Foster's body? Kavanaugh asked
Knowlton, "Did he touch your genitals?"
Who asked him if he touched his genitals? (Kavanaugh)
How could Brett stoop that low? I can't believe Brett did that.
Why did Brett Kavanaugh ask Patrick Knowlton if the suspicious
man had touched his genitals? Why did these prosecutors stoop to
that level to discredit a witness? Patrick Knowlton saw something
very significant in the parking lot. Other witnesses saw the
same thing an old brown car, with Arkansas license plates, not
Foster's newer, gray car.
Mr. Foster was already dead when witnesses saw the brown car.
This fact proves the official story that Vincent Foster drove to
the park and shot himself is false.
The strategy of Starr's prosecutors was to convince the grand
jury that witnesses, like Patrick Knowlton, had not been harassed.
During Patrick Knowlton's grand jury testimony, Brett Kavanaugh
said, "Tell us about the alleged harassment, Mr. Knowlton."
Knowlton responded, "it was not alleged, it happened."
FBI agent Russell Bransford served the subpoena on Knowlton and
later intimidated and harassed him. At the grand jury, Knowlton
repeatedly asked Bates and Kavanaugh to tell him who had sent FBI
agent Bransford to his home. Kavanaugh responded twice that they
were not there to answer Knowlton's questions. When Knowlton
adamantly asked again, John Bates, who was seated behind Patrick,
said, "We sent Bransford." Patrick Knowlton tells us how his grand
jury testimony ended.
Prior to going to the grand jury I was harassed and intimidated
on the streets of Washington. And during that time, a three-day
period, my attorney John Clarke repeatedly called the FBI and the
OICs office. They never responded to give me any protection or any
help. It wasn't until the following Monday that Russell Bransford
showed up at my door and he interviewed me regarding the
harassment. All the time I was telling him the story, of what took
place, he sat there and smiled at me. And when I asked him at one
point if I could trust him? He leaned over into my face and said,
"Mr. Knowlton that is a good question, I don't know."
Well I was looking forward to going to the grand jury and telling
them my story about my harassment and at that time, I did not
realize that the FBI and the OIC were behind it.
I remember when I went to the grand jury. And towards the end of
this 2 ½ hour interview, I was asked by Brett Kavanaugh to step
outside of the grand jury room so the grand jurors could ask
questions. When I re-entered the room, Kavanaugh first asked me if
I was sure that someone else didn't see me in the park? And I
replied that I hoped that someone else had seen me in the park.
Then, he sarcastically asked me whether I came forward to the
authorities because I was a good citizen or a good Samaritan?
Then, John Bates who was seated behind me leaned forward and
passed a note to Brett Kavanaugh, from which Kavanaugh read the
He said, "Mr. Knowlton did the man in the park talk to you?" And
I replied, "no."
He asked me, "Did the man in the park pass you a note?" And I
He said, "Did the man approach you?" And I replied, "no."
"Did the man in the park point a gun at you?" I replied, "no."
And lastly Kavanaugh asked me, "Did the man in the park touch
I looked at him and I was in shock. I was dumbfounded. I
couldn't believe he asked me such a question. Of course, I replied,
As I left the grand jury I was puzzled why the grand jurors would
ask such questions? And as soon as I saw my attorney, John Clarke,
I repeated verbatim the last questions I was asked. Now we know
those questions, were designed by John Bates and Brett Kavanaugh.
They wanted to discredit me, and my testimony.
Bates and Kavanaugh knew Foster's car, that gray car, was not in
the parking lot when Foster was dead. They also knew that all of
the other witnesses and I all saw the brown car in the small parking
lot. No one in that park saw that Foster's gray car.
The press and the government claim that Vincent Foster drove to
the park and shot himself. The fact is, Foster did not drive to the
park. He did not commit suicide.
Brett Kavanaugh was asked what evidence he had to prove that
Foster's car was at the crime scene.
Well I guess some of it depends on whether, whether ah, we know
there was a car there. The question is whether there is evidence,
um, other then that no one saw it being moved out, and ah, you know,
that it had Arkansas plates, ah, ah, um, you know, I'd have to go
back to the Report again and give you a full answer on that, but, I
mean, I guess, I guess that is an unanswerable question.
Kavanaugh's answer did not provide any evidence that Foster's car
was at the crime scene. Kavanaugh is asked a second time about
witnesses who saw the brown car.
Listen to Kavanaugh use the phrase "those facts" to avoid using
the words, "brown car."
What, what you don't like, and I understand this, so I'm not
going to get defensive or offensive, is that the ah, you know, you
think those facts lead to a certain conclusion, and the Report
suggests that those facts do not necessarily lead to any conclusion
other than, you know, inconsistent with the ultimate, ah findings,
so that is just a debate about what inferences you would take from
the facts, that are there, compared to the inferences taken by the,
um, Report, which is fine. People disagree about that all the time,
I mean the Starr Report seems definitive and, not definitive you
But at least in discussing the physical evidence and why it's
unlikely what was in the, ah, scene in the parking lot contradicts
any of that. I think that's the actual phrasing that's used. But I
don't think there was anything ignored, I'll go back and look at
For the third time, Kavanaugh is asked what evidence he had to
prove that Foster's gray car was at the scene.
That, that's the question ah, that there was questions about
whether people were mis-describing colors or something like that,
now that's one inference, another inference is that there was
another car and that's just ah, and then there's a third inference
that, I suppose which is that his car, the gray car wasn't there and
they switched the cars after the [fire] engine arrived. That's an
Kavanaugh is asked a fourth time what evidence he had that
Foster's car was in the parking lot. Either Foster's car was there
or it was not.
Well at least we you know, at least you know, the Report, look
the Report was trying to be honest about a few things, and ah, that,
that, the people had complained about with the Fiske Report, and one
of them was the fact that there were these cars and people saw
different cars and different people.
What about the people, I mean this gets to a problem, what about
the people who seemed clearly to see ah, Foster's car, and described
it as brown. So, people were screwed up on the colors, period.
Kavanaugh is right, there is a problem.
What about the people, I mean this gets to a problem. What
about the people who seemed clearly to see ah, Foster's car, and
described it as brown.
Kavanaugh's statement that people clearly saw Foster's car is not
true. Descriptions of a brown car are not descriptions of Foster's
gray car. How does Kavanaugh resolve the problem?
So, people were screwed up on the colors, period.
Brett Kavanaugh called eyewitnesses "screwed up" because what
they saw did not agree with the desired result.
But Kavanaugh slipped up. He admitted that all of the
police and medical personnel saw a brown car.
Well it all comes down to that brown car issue, right? Ah, all
the police and medical personnel that were in the park also
described it as brown.
The conclusion that Vincent Foster committed suicide depends on
yet another provable lie that Foster drove his children's gray
Honda to Fort Marcy Park.
Patrick Knowlton and all the other witnesses were correct. There
was no gray car in the parking lot.
We just heard Kavanaugh admit that all witnesses were consistent
that the car was brown, proving that Foster did not drive his
children's car to the park.
Earlier in this audio, we heard Kavanaugh admit that the civilian
witnesses reported seeing a brown car, and claimed to believe that
all these civilians were all simply mistaken, or, "screwed up."
But twenty-four officials arrived at the park that night, and
Kavanaugh admits that these twenty-four police and medical
personnel all saw a brown car.
Ah, all the police and medical personnel that were in the park
also described it as brown.
Kavanaugh learned of this evidence, disproving the suicide
theory, from grand jury testimony. Yet, Kavanaugh knowingly
withheld this evidence from Starr's Report on Foster's death, and
submitted the Report to the United States Court of Appeals, to the
Special Division for the Purpose of Appointing Independent Counsels.
Did Kenneth Starr knowingly allow John Bates and Brett Kavanaugh
to submit a fraudulent Report to the United States Court of Appeals?
Kavanaugh was willing to do what Miquel Rodriguez was not willing
to do: To lie. Kavanaugh's lie that Vincent Foster drove to the
park and killed himself was made to perpetuate the cover-up of the
Brett Kavanaugh and John Bates were among those young, aspiring,
people, about whom Miquel Rodriguez said, "will do what is necessary
to move up the ladder." And move up the ladder they have. John
Bates is now a federal district court judge in Washington DC and
Brett Kavanaugh serves as an official in the White House. President
Bush recently nominated Kavanaugh to be a judge on the United States
Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit.
I am Patrick Knowlton producer of these audios. We have shown
that our government and our press have been caught in a provable
lie. When our leaders and our press are covering-up murder, the
safety and well-being of the American people are threatened.
If our press and the government will lie to us about the murder
of a White House official we should ask what else are they lying to
END part three back to the top
Part Four - Be A Good Soldier
This is part four of a series produced by Patrick Knowlton. On
this audio, you will hear, Miquel Rodriguez, the most qualified
government official to speak on Foster's death. You will also hear
comments by media personalities and members of Congress, including
Senator Orrin Hatch and Representative Dan Burton.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation conducts background checks on
the president's nominations for federal judgeships. This agency,
and possibly the same FBI agents, that assisted Bates and Kavanaugh
in covering-up Foster's murder, assures that nominees have no
criminal background, and so are qualified to serve as judges.
The Senate Judiciary committee, chaired by Senator Orrin Hatch,
confirms judicial nominees. Listen and compare the comments of
Miquel Rodriguez to Chairman Hatch.
Senator Orrin Hatch:
Accordingly, I want to be clear on one point, there is absolutely
no credible evidence to contradict the Fiske Report's conclusion
that Vincent Foster took his own life, and it happened at Fort Marcy
Park. There is no credible evidence to the contrary. I suspect
conspiracy theorists will always differ with this conclusion.
Both EMTs that responded to the park. Both observed trauma to
the neck. I saw pictures that clearly indicate to me that there is
trauma on the neck. I believe it's a puncture wound on the neck.
There is really nothing that is consistent with him committing
that kind of violent act at all.
The public has been told by the media that the Senate Banking
Committee investigated the death of Vincent Foster. Compare the
remarks of committee members with those we have heard from Miquel
Rodriguez. First is California Senator Barbara Boxer:
The first issue is the Vince Foster death. Independent
Counsel states quote, "the overwhelming evidence compels the
conclusion that Vincent Foster committed suicide. There is no
evidence that issues related to Whitewater played any part in his
suicide." Now you've heard that several times, but that's the crux
of the matter.
This whole notion of doing an honest investigation is laughable.
I knew what the result was going to be, because I was told what the
result was going to be from the get go.
Republican Senator Bob Bennett:
I will be happy to stipulate that Vince Foster committed
suicide. There was a time when the rumors that were in the press
lead me to believe there was some credence to an additional theory.
I find no possible justification for that now and I am one senator
who is willing to say that this hearing should not be about whether
or not Vince Foster committed suicide. He committed suicide, I'll
All I know is that things did not happen the way Fiske said that
they happened, and the reports don't support what Fiske said.
Senior Republican Senator Pete Domenici said the Republicans
would not challenge the Fiske Report.
Senator Pete Domenici:
With reference to his death I don't think anyone on our side is
challenging the suicide. So perhaps we can get rid of that rather
It is in many Republicans' interest to not rock the boat, because
what we are talking about is ultimate power.
Former Democrat and now Republican, Senator Ben Nighthorse
These hearings begin with the investigation of Vincent Foster's
suicide and that should turn the stomach of any caring American. I
really believe we should drop that whole issue. The Park Police,
the FBI, the Medical Examiner, the Independent Counsel they are all
professionals and they did their job and concluded that Vince Foster
did indeed commit suicide.
And this is all so much fluff and a look-good job. This is all
so much nonsense. I knew the result before the investigation began.
Democrat Senator Christopher Dodd:
This panel is a banking committee, not a medical board of
inquiry. We're senators not coroners. There are some legitimate
questions that ought to be examined but probing in a macabre way
into the family tragedy, that all that have looked at it have
concluded was tragically a suicide and nothing more. I hope we can
move through very quickly and get to the issues that are more
important in my view.
They had the nerve to look at me straight in the eye, and ah,
when I said, "Look, I think it might be a good idea to use different
FBI agents." They went through the roof! They went absolutely
nuts! They had everything the way they wanted it. It was a
complete sham job. You know, again, I just think it is a
whitewash. I know these people and I know what they are trying to
do. I know where they want to go. Where they want to go is the
path of least resistance.
Democrat Senators Carol Moseley-Braun and Senator John Kerry:
Mr. Chairman I would like to associate myself with the remarks of
Senators Bennett and Boxer regarding the Vincent Foster issue. We
are not conducting an investigation into a suicide.
Senator John Kerry:
The FBI, the Park Police, the Foster family and the Special
Counsel have all concluded that Vince Foster tragically took his own
life. The medical examiner, the FBI laboratory, the DNA analysis on
the gun, the medical and forensic experts all agree yet somehow here
is the United States Senate giving credence to the most insulting,
degrading, lurid, and lunatic theories that people could invent.
Very few people need to know anything about anything really. All
people need to know is what there job is, not why, be a good
soldier, carry out the orders.
Alabama Senator Richard Shelby and Vincent Foster were next door
neighbors in a Georgetown rowhouse. This is what Senator Shelby
said about his neighbor:
It is my understanding, as others have said, and people
have testified like Doctor Hirsch, um, that it was a suicide and I
have no reason to question that. And I was hoping that we can close
Even the Park Police, even the Park Police and the person who
first saw the body, ah, saw different things. But there was a point
in time where the particular gun that he described arrived and
something before that was either not observed or not completely
Peter Jennings aided the cover-up when he announced that ABC News
had been, "investigating to see if there is any truth to the
rumors," about Vince Foster's death. But the ABC news investigation
did not include interviewing Patrick Knowlton and other witnesses
that could prove Foster did not drive his family's gray Honda to the
On March 11, 1994, ABC News broadcast the conclusion that Vince
Foster committed suicide. At that time, only two witnesses had been
interviewed by Robert Fiske. Miquel Rodriguez told us, the
conclusion was determined long ago and "the news media had the story
line from the get go."
Another story about violence, in Washington today the White House
is accusing Republicans of spreading irresponsible and
unsubstantiated rumors about the Whitewater affair. In particular a
rumor circulating yesterday insinuating foul play in the death of
Vince Foster, the White House Counsel, who police have said
committed suicide last summer. We have been investigating to see if
there is any truth to the rumors. Here is ABC's Jim Wooten:
The common thread is that Foster was murdered someplace else,
that his body was moved to this park above the Potomac where it was
found. And feeding all this speculation, is more speculation. For
instance, the rumor that there are no photographs of the scene.
There are. ABC News has seen a complete set, including this one
showing Foster's hand, his thumb caught in the trigger guard. Some
rumors insist there was little or no blood on or around Foster's
body. The grim and graphic photographs of the scene prove that is
not true either. The White House itself may have fueled some of the
rumors with its own incompetence in the hours after Foster's death.
But there is little reason now to doubt that for whatever reason he
may have had, the President's boyhood friend drove himself across
the Potomac one afternoon last July and tragically took his own
life. Jim Wooten ABC News Washington.
The photographs that were taken for several people don't exist
any longer or they have never been turned over to reviewing
officials. I had a person look at thirteen photographs and that
person told me mine are not here. So that person's photographs are
At the time they got there, and the body was in the position that
it was in, there was virtually no blood anywhere.
Then there are some conflicting reports of there being blood
later on. Later the EMT sees blood, then Haut sees blood. Well the
reason is very clear. They lifted the body and pulled it to the top
of the ridge, to top of the berm, and once they did that blood
started flowing fast.
Why did Fiske and his FBI investigators give ABC News the death
scene photographs during their ongoing investigation? Six years
after Starr issued his conclusion, the public is still denied the
right to view the photographs. A Freedom of Information Act suit,
by Attorney Alan Favish, to release the photographs is before the
United States Supreme Court.
Does the news media act as the voice of the government or does it
serve as the eyes and ears of the American people?
Miquel Rodriguez told us he spoke to over 100 journalists,
including ABC's Nightline. Ted Koppel talked to Miquel Rodriguez
and knew that Rodriguez would not join the criminal cover-up.
Publicly Koppel concealed what Rodriguez told him. Koppel
discredited Rodriguez for not being a team player.
Let me just put a slightly different turn on the facts as
you have recounted them. I am familiar with the gentleman of whom
you speak. I am familiar with the charges. The only difference
with the version I have heard and the version you have recounted is
that I have heard is that he is described as a guy who wanted to go
off on his own, who did indeed want to follow some leads that his
superiors did not want him to follow, because they wanted to follow
a team approach there. But that in and of itself, and I don't think
even Mr. Rodriguez, would take the position that he had evidence, of
Vince Foster having been killed.
Well I wrote that to Starr back in January of this year and it
was squelched by Tuohey, he could yell louder than I could. He was
a team player. I know. My office was searched by him.
There is really nothing that is consistent with him, ah, you
know, committing that kind of a violent or that kind of violent
act at all.
After Miquel Rodriguez contacted ABC Nightline, Ted Koppel did
not report the evidence that Foster was murdered. Nightline's host
misled viewers by broadcasting the foolish idea that if Foster had
been murdered too many people would have to be involved in a
Let me take for the moment what you have said, with a grain
of salt. But let's assume for the sake of argument that it were
true. One would then have to also conclude that everyone who
subsequently has investigated this case, now I'm not now talking
about reporters, I'm talking about the FBI, I'm talking about the
Senate Banking Committee, I'm talking about the Park Service itself,
all those who have investigated it, and all those who have
subsequently read all of the reports, would have to be in collusion,
say for whatever reason, I'm wondering what reason you might think,
ah would bring Democrats and Republicans, critics and friends of the
Clinton administration, to, to conspire to come to that conclusion.
You don't need a lot of people to know what's going on. In fact,
you don't need many at all. Everyone makes a very big mistake when
they believe that a lot of people are necessary to orchestrate some
kind of some result here. Very few people need to know anything
about anything really. When you write a report all you have to do
is make sure it is consistent with, the most innocuous thing is to
make sure it is consistent with the result that you ultimately want
to get, which is to not embarrass your other colleagues who have
made their conclusion already.
Knowlton learned that Miquel Rodriguez was talking to the New
York Times, Washington Post and the Associated Press, at the same
time Rodriguez contacted Nightline. Miquel Rodriguez told Ted
Koppel about the criminal activity in Kenneth Starr's Office of
Independent Counsel. Why is Ted Koppel still asking for someone to
give him the evidence?
The impression that somehow if there was a great, dramatic,
indeed shattering story like the one just mentioned, that those of
us in the media have anything to gain, I'm talking now about the
mass media, by not broadcasting it. You give me the evidence, I'll
be delighted to broadcast it. I have no particular problem with
where the ideology of a story comes from, as long as I can prove it
to be true. Okay?
Patrick Knowlton personally delivered evidence of his
intimidation to every news organization including Ted Koppel
personally. Mr. Knowlton also included the proof Foster's car was
not at Fort Marcy Park. Koppel told his producer to ask Patrick
Knowlton to bring his evidence to his ABC office. After meeting
with Nightline's producer, ABC never contacted Patrick Knowlton
I have talked to a number of people from Time Magazine, Newsweek,
you know, Nightline, there have been well over a hundred. And this
matter is so sealed tight the editors won't allow it to go to
press. The accepted media here has always had, ah, a certain take
on all of this. And there's been story lines from the
When confronted with their failure to report important news, an
excuse offered by journalists is, "We don't have the facilities. We
don't have the time." It is interesting that stories like Monica
Lewinsky get the full attention and resources of the press.
Corruption uncovered by the government is acceptable, without
question, and reported. Serious government corruption, uncovered
by citizens, is suppressed and/or dismissed as conspiracy theories.
I do five programs a week on Nightline. For example, turning
out 2 ½ hours of broadcasting every week means that on average we
will probably spend, I'm talking about different members of our
staff, perhaps, five or six days on a program. Some programs we may
spend five or six hours on. If news breaks, a major news story
breaks at seven o'clock in the evening or at eight o'clock in the
evening, we'll have it on Nightline at eleven-thirty at night, three
hours later. There is no question in my mind, and it has always
been so, that the fringe media, on the left and on the right, the
smaller organizations, the ones that can and do in fact, focus an
enormous amount of attention, on a particular story, sometimes
spending many months, even years on a story, that it is often the
fringe media that will develop a story that is ultimately picked up
by the mass media. If you are looking to the mass media to do the
real investigative journalism, if you're looking for Nightline to do
major investigative stories, you're looking in the wrong direction.
We don't have the facilities we don't have the time. I have a staff
of 50 people and we do 2 ½ hours of broadcasting a week.
When it comes to reporting the news, ABC is no different than
FOX, CNN, NBC and CBS. Compare the comments of journalist Mike
Wallace of CBS 60 Minutes, to what we now know from Miquel
Rodriguez. It is clear that Mike Wallace has it wrong.
What really happened to Vince Foster? Did President Clinton's
boyhood friend kill himself or was he murdered? Foster's body was
found outside Washington more than two years ago, but still we read
stories about his death almost every day. And just as often viewers
call or write asking us to investigate. So we have taken a look at
what really happened to him.
But the evidence does not indicate that to any of the
investigators, all of whom concluded that the body could not have
Dr. Donald Haut you are the Fairfax County Medical Examiner?
Yes I am.
Was there a suspicious lack of blood at the scene?
Did you tell a reporter by the name of Christopher Ruddy that
there was an unusual lack of blood?
Christopher Ruddy says that you changed your story.
No. That's not true.
So Haut actually sees the body in two positions and people are
conveniently using different phrases of Haut to justify whatever
result they want. Sure Haut says on one hand there is no blood,
but, he says, on the other hand, there is blood. The fact is, a
number of people have said there was a small amount where the body
was originally found. Later on it's moved to a horizontal position
at the top of the berm, it does have some seepage under the body.
So when Haut sees the body it is in a horizontal state, so yes
there is going to be blood. Haut actually sees the body in two
Mike Wallace and Jim Wooten of ABC News hoodwinked the public by
broadcasting that there was plenty of blood where Foster's body was
NBC's Tim Russert, without presenting facts or evidence, suggests
the public should accept and trust whatever the authorities say.
The Fiske investigation, a former Republican U.S. attorney,
concluded the death was a suicide. If Ken Starr, a man who accepted
the position as Dean of the Pepperdine Law School, School of Public
Policy, if he concludes, if he concludes, that Vincent Foster's
death was a suicide, will you then accept that?
NBC's Tim Russert personally received the evidence of Patrick
Knowlton's harassment and what he and other witnesses saw at Fort
Marcy Park. Knowlton appealed to Tim Russert to look at the
evidence and report the story of his harassment. Tim Russert took
Knowlton's evidence and telephone number, but Russert never
contacted Knowlton. The private Tim Russert is different from the
public Tim Russert:
And if there is a situation where an individual is being harassed
or is placed in harm in any way, shape, or form, be it Waco, Ruby
Ridge, wherever the case may lead us we'll be there covering it.
It was the Independent counsel themselves and the FBI that beat
me back, in fact threatened me. They told me to back off and back
down. I have been communicated with again and told to be careful
where I tread. I can tell you this it's not just my career and
reputation, but it also has to do with my personal health and my
Several prominent Senators stated their agreement with Robert
Fiske's Report. on Foster's death. Patrick Knowlton met personally
with many members of Congress including House Speaker Newt Gingrich
and Dan Burton. Publicly, Speaker Gingrich stated that his
committee chairmen would investigate Foster's death.
House Speaker Newt Gingrich:
I think we are entitled to a full airing and I think you are
going to find that Congressional hearings are going to raise those
questions. I was very struck by an article I think it was in the
Investors Business Daily, ran a very long article that I thought was
stunning, raising question after question about Foster and what
happened there. And I have asked several of our Congressional
chairmen of our committees to look into that and I think you will be
seeing some hearings on these topics because when you look at them
there is just too much there to not try to find out what really
Privately, Dan Burton, Chairman of the Government Oversight
Committee, in a meeting with Patrick Knowlton promised he would hold
hearings to investigate Foster's death.
Representative Dan Burton:
Representative Dan Burton:
You know me, if I tell you something it is going to be the
straight scoop or I won't tell it to you. I am not going to violate
your trust. I promise.
Well let me just say I had an interview with Novak. And anytime
I am talking to the media, even my good friend Bob Novak, I am not
going to say that I am going to re-open any investigation, the
Travel Office, the FBI, Vince Foster or anything. Now that doesn't
mean that I am not going to look into things that I think are
relevant or important, and I am going to do that.
Oh no, what I said was that unless I have additional information
that would lead me to believe that we ought to re-open any of the
investigations then I am not going to do anything. Now that doesn't
mean that, see I'm going to be looking into all of this to find out
if there is additional information. But publicly I am not going to
re-open the investigation unless I get something. There is no need
to do it. And I am going through it. And if that, that, that, that,
that, would shed new light on it, of course I am going to explore
Listen to me. I, I, I, I am going to look into every aspect of
every one of these investigations. I am going to go through all the
files that Clinger had. I am going to go through my files. I've
got a deposition of the man who found his body. But I am not going
to divulge how I am going to conduct any of this until the proper
time. And what I need is something to hang my hat on that will show
that there is additional information or evidence.
Now you got to do that in a very careful way. Otherwise the
media is going to have a field day. They are expecting me to do
that. They expect me to right off the bat to start beating on the
Foster issue. And, and I can't do that right off the bat. Just
give me a little bit of time to go through this.
I do what I say I am going to do and if you don't trust me. If
you don't want to give me information then don't do it.
I am just telling you as chairman of this committee I got three
investigations, right now. I got Travel Office, I got FBI and now I
got these illegal contributions. And I have got to deal with
Now Foster, I told you and I still believe this. I said it on
the record to the New York Times or Washington Post I can't remember
which one. I said I don't recant anything I said about Foster. I
believe his body was moved. I believe that Report was in error. I
believe what the confidential witness said.
But I have got to do this at the right time. And I don't think
starting right off the bat doing this would be the right thing to do
because they would, they would try to blow that up and make it look
like I was not a credible chairman. So what I've got to do is deal
with the things that are right on my plate which are Travel Office,
Filegate Office, er File Office, er FBI Files, and this this issue
And Foster you may rest assured. I am going to look at all the
documents I possibly can. I'm going to look at those pictures. I
am going to look into that. This is not the time to be beating on
that drum until we're ready.
Well, then don't believe me.
I still have hope that what I uncovered will not be explained
END part four back to the top
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